Mike Layman

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[0:00] Hi, it's Ian from Attraction Insight and

[0:02] I'm here with Mike and Phil. How are you

[0:04] guys today?

[0:04] Good, thanks. How you doing?

[0:05] Good,

[0:05] good.

[0:06] Uh, please uh by all means uh who who

[0:09] are you guys and where you coming from?

[0:10] Yeah, my name is Mike Layman. I'm

[0:11] originally from uh Southern California,

[0:13] worked at the Disneyland Resort for 25

[0:15] years as a technical director uh where

[0:17] my big focus was all the live

[0:19] entertainment technology uh within the

[0:21] show itself. So, make sure we cohes it

[0:23] all together. Yeah. So, it all functions

[0:25] seamlessly, flawlessly, and presents

[0:27] good shows for our guests on a nightly

[0:28] basis. Big fan. Big fan. Big fan. I

[0:31] didn't know your name, but trust me, I'm

[0:32] a big fan.

[0:32] The one thing we'll talk about later is

[0:34] fantasmic.

[0:34] Oh, that's excellent. Okay. Well, we'll

[0:36] jump in, Phil. How you

[0:37] doing? Thank you. Uh oh, I will hold

[0:39] this. Hi, my name is Phil Lindseay. Uh I

[0:41] am actually a 40-year veteran of the

[0:42] attraction industry. Uh for all of those

[0:45] 40 years, I have been primarily what I

[0:47] would call a technologist. My job has

[0:48] been to help create all of the

[0:51] technologies over the years that have uh

[0:54] brought all of these attractions and

[0:56] rides and shows to life.

[0:58] Well, that's incredible. So, I didn't

[1:01] This is the crazy thing about Ayappa is

[1:03] that I mean I I'll call you legends at

[1:06] 25 and and 40 years respectively. Uh

[1:09] that's just amazing. So, I'm glad to

[1:12] talk to you and really get your insight

[1:13] about experience on how that stuff uh

[1:15] goes down. Um can you can you talk to me

[1:18] about some of the projects that you've

[1:19] been working on recently that you that

[1:21] you're allowed to talk about?

[1:22] Sure. I I'll do a a short one, but uh I

[1:24] know Mike has the headline here. So, I

[1:26] think

[1:26] Oh, please. Uh we just opened in the

[1:29] last two years. The last two projects I

[1:30] opened were a an attraction Boston

[1:33] called View Boston. Okay.

[1:34] So like the biggest thing we did was

[1:36] this massive 100 foot scale model of

[1:39] Boston that we projection map.

[1:40] Wow.

[1:41] So you can watch us run the marathon.

[1:43] You'll see boat races all sorts of stuff

[1:46] in Boston. And then this past March uh I

[1:49] just opened the National Medal of Honor

[1:51] Museum here in Texas.

[1:52] Okay. And probably the centerpiece for

[1:54] that is we have an AI version of a medal

[1:58] recipient. Somebody who's won the medal,

[1:59] a real person that you can ask questions

[2:02] to and they will answer it.

[2:04] Wow. That's

[2:04] so so that's been a really big thing.

[2:07] That's incredible. I mean, we've seen

[2:08] some cool uses of AI, especially at this

[2:10] show. Um, but that's crazy that you

[2:15] would uh

[2:17] that's crazy that you would be able to

[2:20] just basically make this, you know,

[2:21] museum curator.

[2:22] Yes, exactly. And and it keeps their

[2:25] story alive. Like the the Medal of Honor

[2:27] recipients are getting older and we will

[2:28] lose them eventually. We have their

[2:30] stories. So that's important.

[2:32] That's so cool.

[2:32] I'm gonna let this Mike talk about a a

[2:34] much bigger grow.

[2:35] Oh,

[2:36] all right. Mike, talk to us about the

[2:37] much bigger project. So yeah, one of the

[2:38] biggest projects of my career so far is

[2:40] uh working on Fantasmic.

[2:42] Holy moly.

[2:43] Debuted in 1992 on Tom Island in

[2:46] Anaheim, California. The granddaddy of

[2:48] all spectaculars if you really want to

[2:49] look at it. Uh this show is I took it

[2:52] over many years,

[2:54] you know, as a career path. And we

[2:56] actually uh had to upgrade control

[2:57] systems for the for the show itself

[2:59] where

[3:00] made mid lifestyle made a lifestyle

[3:03] change because Disney created the

[3:05] control systems way back in the in the

[3:07] '90s. And even earlier than that for

[3:09] even audio central.

[3:10] I'm sorry. I've got to say a word for

[3:11] our audience who may not understand us.

[3:12] Yeah.

[3:13] The show when we opened it in 1992 was

[3:16] analog.

[3:17] The whole show was analog.

[3:18] Oh my god.

[3:19] Eat squad alert. Eat squad alert. And

[3:21] it's true. It was the IO input outputs

[3:24] was crazy. And so to turn out those

[3:26] cabinets to put in digital cabinets and

[3:29] get the Ethernet connected was just the

[3:31] scariest thing in the world to do. But

[3:32] knowing that we could do it.

[3:34] Yeah. Just as a frame of reference. uh

[3:36] basically I mean and the difference

[3:37] between analog and digital for anybody

[3:39] who doesn't know I mean it's size

[3:41] primarily and it can be hundfolds I mean

[3:46] we really do live in some crazy

[3:48] computing times where the old technology

[3:51] we need a lot to to

[3:52] for people who want to get into the

[3:54] weeds so for every queue that had to

[3:56] happen there had to be a wire literally

[3:59] had to be a wire today thanks to

[4:00] networking we don't need to do that

[4:02] anymore

[4:02] Wow that's incredible

[4:04] yeah the technology behind It's

[4:05] fantastic. And transmission from a show

[4:07] control booth that's hundreds of feet

[4:09] away to the Shintel building itself was

[4:12] impressive and we change all the fiber

[4:13] optics.

[4:14] Well, so that's so cool just because I

[4:16] mean you did get to see the evolution of

[4:19] this and and be a really active part of

[4:21] it seems. Um, so I mean I know there's

[4:26] so many things that go into it, but was

[4:27] there like a particular challenge that

[4:29] you really had to like overcome? Uh, I I

[4:32] know I know it's a loaded question.

[4:34] That's a wild question.

[4:35] Let's see. Uh, do I start with timeline

[4:37] or budget? [laughter]

[4:38] Yeah. I mean, yeah.

[4:39] And the other thing is is remember one

[4:41] of the one of the true joys of working

[4:43] in this field.

[4:44] Everything we do is a prototype.

[4:46] Yeah.

[4:47] There's never been built before. So,

[4:49] we're kind of winging it.

[4:50] Yeah.

[4:51] Which is always fun

[4:52] until it works.

[4:53] Yeah. I use the phrase, you know, make

[4:54] the impossible possible. And it's we're

[4:56] inventing every day. And I tell the team

[4:57] members that

[4:58] what we don't know tomorrow,

[5:00] you know, we could build. That's

[5:03] fantastic. Fantastic way to go about it.

[5:05] Okay. So, I mean, I would be remiss with

[5:08] the experiments that experience that I

[5:10] have in front of me right now. Please,

[5:12] somebody who's trying to get into this,

[5:13] somebody's trying to be a technical

[5:15] director for Disney, somebody's trying

[5:16] to be a technical director for wherever.

[5:18] I mean, what do you say to those people?

[5:21] And we'll I'll context it a little bit.

[5:23] These guys are out of school. Well, just

[5:26] just to give you a frame of reference.

[5:27] These guys are not, you know, oh, well,

[5:29] someday I'm going to go work for like

[5:31] they're they're taking steps. What do

[5:33] they do after they've got that baseline

[5:35] skill set?

[5:36] Well, I think you have the baseline

[5:37] skill set, but you start off humble.

[5:38] Sure.

[5:39] Start off humble, have an open mind

[5:41] because what you learn in the books and

[5:42] the school is definitely a good stepping

[5:45] stone to grow in the real world where

[5:46] you actually learn a lot more because

[5:48] real world experience brings you to that

[5:50] spot of

[5:51] ah I could relate to it now. And that's

[5:53] really a big important thing I find

[5:54] which is super critical in the big

[5:56] picture. Phil.

[5:57] Yeah. Um and the other thing I would say

[5:59] is the the the

[6:02] thing that will be important for

[6:04] instance we both started I don't know

[6:06] did you get a theater degree?

[6:07] No.

[6:08] No. I got a theater degree.

[6:09] I want to do a show.

[6:10] Um so this was back in the 80s and so I

[6:12] turned a theater degree into an

[6:14] attractions career for 40 years. Um, and

[6:17] the thing that's really important that

[6:19] there's two things I would say that are

[6:21] are going to be important for people.

[6:22] One is even if you don't want to be a

[6:25] project manager, take project management

[6:27] classes.

[6:28] Interesting.

[6:28] Understanding how the process of putting

[6:31] something together over time over

[6:33] sometimes three to four years is very

[6:36] important.

[6:37] Yeah.

[6:37] And the second thing is that

[6:39] don't be a specialist if you want to be

[6:41] like a technologist.

[6:43] Okay. knowing as much as you can,

[6:44] whether it's audiovisisual, whether it's

[6:47] computer control, whether it's um making

[6:50] an audio vantronic talk,

[6:52] the structural, it's great to have as

[6:54] much as possible because to be a

[6:56] technical director type person, you kind

[6:58] of have to oversee the entirety of the

[7:00] technical package. That's what they're

[7:02] relying on us on. Yeah. Is there is a

[7:04] ton of specialists. There are brilliant

[7:06] audio designers, there are brilliant

[7:08] ride designers, there are brilliant

[7:10] media creators, but somebody has to

[7:12] oversee everything that it all fits

[7:14] together.

[7:15] Yeah.

[7:16] Yeah. And when you were talking about

[7:17] being a technical director, I mean,

[7:19] where where it is it it was

[7:21] all-encompassing. It was at no point in

[7:24] time was it like, oh, well, I'm only

[7:25] doing this. I'm only doing this. It was

[7:27] like, okay, well, I do need to know

[7:29] every department, every, you know, kind

[7:32] of trigger, every uh show control, all

[7:36] that stuff. Even if maybe you're not the

[7:38] one touching it, but

[7:40] but at the end of the day, when you're

[7:41] sitting there doing the design reviews

[7:42] for these systems, you want to be able

[7:43] to actually understand what's being put

[7:44] in front of you. So you could call it

[7:46] out, say, "Change that to this, do this,

[7:48] do that." Because that's where then your

[7:50] specialists can go back into the weeds

[7:52] and redraw their oneline diagrams to

[7:54] everything to make that system work

[7:55] properly because you know what you want

[7:56] it to do.

[7:57] And and the other thing I would say,

[7:58] what I have what I think is the most fun

[8:01] and it's the biggest pain in the rear is

[8:03] when we're building the thing itself,

[8:05] half of our job is being spent in the

[8:07] real world. Yeah.

[8:09] Looking at this stuff. And I guarantee

[8:11] you there will come the day where you

[8:13] will come to site and you will go, "Why

[8:15] is that there?

[8:17] That's not supposed to be there. That's

[8:18] supposed to be there."

[8:20] Y

[8:21] I swear we on paper it looks great.

[8:23] Yeah. Exactly. It worked on paper.

[8:25] Reality says on the wall

[8:27] and and it's it's it's the thing to

[8:29] remember is if for people and I

[8:31] encourage younger people who want to do

[8:32] this to to sort of reach out to the

[8:35] everybody here in the IPA show is happy

[8:36] to chat with people.

[8:37] Yeah. And um learn as much as you can.

[8:41] Meet the people here. Um because it it's

[8:44] any successful career will be about the

[8:47] people you meet.

[8:48] I I couldn't couldn't agree more.

[8:49] The skills are great to have because

[8:51] that just proves you can do the job.

[8:52] Yeah.

[8:53] But it's really going to be about who

[8:54] you get along with, who who appreciate

[8:56] you,

[8:57] you know, the opportunities that you're

[8:59] going to get depending on whom

[9:00] you you come up. And I will also tell

[9:02] you that this is a job for people who

[9:05] will jump to different places. Yeah,

[9:07] it it's very rare that um you will start

[9:10] at say a Disneyland. I know people who

[9:12] did this but then worked for 40 years,

[9:14] but that is the rarity.

[9:16] It's more likely, well, I'll go here and

[9:17] I'll go to Universal and then I'll go to

[9:18] a museum and then I'll go to here.

[9:21] Yeah. Along that line of gaining your

[9:23] experience. I mean, uh maybe the the big

[9:26] boys are not necessarily where you start

[9:28] just because you know you're I mean to

[9:31] be perfect L is not ready.

[9:33] Well, you've got you've got to have some

[9:34] time to grow.

[9:35] It's not only that. I think that that

[9:37] there there are always entry level

[9:39] positions at any level.

[9:41] Sure.

[9:41] But the most opportunities you will find

[9:43] are likely with the the people on the

[9:45] floor here, right? That that there are

[9:48] hundreds of companies. I'm looking at

[9:50] one right here. You don't have to put

[9:51] the camera on it, but there's an

[9:52] engineering company right over there.

[9:54] And getting a a um you know, an entry-

[9:58] level job there. There's going to be way

[9:59] more of those than you might find at a

[10:01] Disney or Universal.

[10:02] That's fair. That's fair. And maybe

[10:04] maybe a little less competitive. Yeah,

[10:06] a little less competitive. [laughter]

[10:07] But the other thing we bit, and this is

[10:09] also important, if you're young and

[10:10] starting out, build your portfolio. Keep

[10:12] keep the and keep the keep the work. You

[10:15] know, it's somebody you never know when

[10:17] somebody will say, "Okay, show me your

[10:19] math."

[10:19] Yeah.

[10:20] Okay,

[10:22] here it is. Test five. Uh uh

[10:25] and I think to the to Phil's point,

[10:27] build your street credentials, build

[10:28] your resume, get experience across the

[10:30] board, don't pigeon hole yourself.

[10:32] Yeah.

[10:32] And lastly, don't burn bridges. Yeah,

[10:34] our industry is so small, so niche that

[10:37] if you do something wrong, everybody

[10:39] chances are they'll find out and it's be

[10:41] a challenge for you to recover out of

[10:42] that mess.

[10:43] It it is incredible to me that even as

[10:45] big as IA is, uh I still find people

[10:48] that I I know and and quickly too. It it

[10:52] just and you know, my network's not that

[10:54] big, but it's just also not that big of

[10:58] an industry, you know,

[10:59] and and the the thing and let me just

[11:01] put this out there. You know, Mike and I

[11:03] are are at the end of our careers,

[11:05] right? We're looking to you folks to to

[11:08] come and replace us because I I don't

[11:11] want to do this forever. I'm old. I'd

[11:14] like to sit down once in a while.

[11:17] Yeah, I've got a few more years, but

[11:18] yeah, thanks. I'm not retiring yet, but

[11:20] yet let's mentor up and let's grow.

[11:22] Well, okay. So, this has just been a

[11:23] fantastic uh talk with both of you.

[11:25] Thank you so much. Absolutely.

[11:27] Thanks for popping over. This is

[11:28] awesome, man. You guys having a lunch on

[11:30] a bench right here. And there you go.

[11:31] Yeah, this this has been so great. I

[11:33] mean, and I I do hope this gets to the

[11:35] person who needs to hear it. Yeah.

[11:37] And you know, that person who has these

[11:40] dreams of uh you know, building the next

[11:42] next theme park. Hopefully the words you

[11:45] you know, those are words to live by.

[11:46] So, thank you so much, guys.

[11:48] You're welcome. Thank you guys so much.

[11:49] Appreciate