Derek Djernes

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Intro & how we connected

[0:00] Hey Derek, it's uh nice to have you

[0:02] here. Thank you so much for joining me

[0:04] today. The reason why I want to have

[0:06] conversation with you because some of

[0:08] the techniques that you use in marketing

[0:10] your place is amazing. Introduce

[0:12] yourself. Tell us where you're from and

[0:14] what kind of business you have.

[0:16] Yeah, absolutely. So, my name is Derek

[0:18] Journis and I am in Nebraska and I own

[0:21] an axe throwing and paint splatter room

[0:23] called Axeholes Carney.

[0:25] Awesome. and how how you actually came

[0:28] across, you know, across me and our

[0:31] agency.

[0:32] Yeah, that's that's a great question.

[0:34] So, there's a I would say a small number

[0:36] of Axoring venues across the nation,

[0:38] right? I think what is there 4,000 or so

[0:41] across the nation and everybody kind of

[0:43] knows each other and I start I started

[0:45] to see you post and give some feedback

[0:48] and really valuable information through

[0:50] the comments section of the Facebook

[0:53] groups that I'm part of. that's like the

[0:55] owner ax throwing group venue Facebook

[0:58] groups and really started to kind of

[1:00] watch you and understand you know what

[1:02] you guys are doing and you were always

[1:04] giving back and you were always giving

[1:07] super valuable information and so I got

[1:09] to know you a little bit and then you

[1:12] introduced me to Austin and I feel like

[1:14] Austin and I really vibe together really

[1:16] well. He really inspired me I would say

[1:18] became friends with him a little bit and

[1:20] so uh you guys have just been the game

[1:22] changer for us. So, it's been great.

[1:25] Eric,

[1:25] can you tell us a little bit more about

[1:26] your background?

Derek’s background (B2B mindset)

[1:27] Yeah, that's a great question. So, for

[1:29] my day job, I run an IT and cyber

[1:31] security company, which doesn't seem

[1:33] like it would relate, but you know, how

[1:36] I came across this business is I was

[1:38] looking for a side business for a couple

[1:40] years, and I just really wasn't finding

[1:42] anything that was a good fit. And then I

[1:44] came across this opportunity, and it

[1:46] just seemed to be a good fit. And for

[1:48] us, our ax throwing venue, you know, 60%

[1:51] of the revenue is businesses and

[1:54] organizations doing team building

[1:56] events. And for my day job on the IT and

[1:58] cyber security side, it's all B2B. And

[2:01] so I have a high comfort level working

[2:04] with businesses and organizations. So

[2:07] naturally, I gravitate towards that

[2:09] piece of the marketing side um just

[2:12] because I just live and breathe that

[2:14] every single day. One of the biggest

[2:16] challenges that I had though was to

[2:18] learn what I call the casual consumer

[2:20] side. I just didn't know how to relate

[2:23] or you know the right marketing to get

[2:25] to the casual consumer that necessarily

[2:27] wasn't a business. And so that was a

[2:29] huge learning curve for me. But uh yeah,

[2:31] so that's kind of how my what my

[2:33] background is and how it's kind of

[2:34] related to to the ax rowing side which

[2:37] is very interesting.

[2:38] Nice. And so you found this extra place

[2:41] that were for sale and acquired it,

[2:43] right?

[2:44] Correct. And I believe at the beginning

[2:46] you didn't have a splitter room, right?

[2:48] So you added it later on.

Adding paint splatter: the pivot

[2:49] Yeah. So you know through the

[2:51] relationships with Blue Apple Marketing

[2:54] and just starting to learn other venues,

[2:56] you know, as I started talking with

[2:58] Austin, we were just talking about what

[3:00] is another experience. And you know, you

[3:02] guys have all your spin art nations and

[3:03] your escape rooms. And you know, after

[3:06] talking to you and Austin, it was really

[3:08] a turning point for me because I knew

[3:10] that, you know, as axe throwing was

[3:12] maybe on the downside of the peak of

[3:16] where it was, you know, in 2020, uh, or

[3:19] maybe 2021, 2022 coming out of, um, CO,

[3:23] you know, so I knew that we needed to

[3:25] add another experience. And so I

[3:28] actually ended up just googling axe

[3:31] throwing and paint splatter rooms. I

[3:33] wanted to talk to somebody that had

[3:34] both. I know you guys were doing the

[3:36] spin art nation and so I just did a

[3:38] simple Google search and found Axguard

[3:42] on the east coast that was doing both ax

[3:44] rowing and paint splatter. And I just

[3:46] simply went to their website and I went

[3:48] to contact us and I sent them a message

[3:50] and said, "Hey, my name is Derek. I own

[3:52] an axing venue in Nebraska. Would you be

[3:55] willing to talk to me about your paint

[3:57] splatter room?" And it was amazing. They

[4:00] were open arms. They called me and said,

[4:03] "Hey, not only do we want to talk on the

[4:04] phone, let's do a FaceTime video. We

[4:07] want to show you what, you know, our

[4:09] paint splatter room is." And they

[4:10] literally kind of gave me the blueprint

[4:12] of what I needed to do to install our

[4:15] paint splatter room. So, I did that with

[4:17] uh, you know, the advice from you and

[4:19] Austin as well. It's been an absolute

[4:21] gamecher for us.

[4:23] This is what I think make you different

[4:25] from like, you know, so many other

[4:26] people who would think and consider but

[4:29] never execute. and you're like literally

[4:31] over there just executing and

[4:33] implementing everything.

Action - ideas (owner mindset)

[4:34] Interesting that you say that because I

[4:36] think business owners underestimate the

[4:40] amount of action it takes to be able to

[4:44] be successful in business. And I think I

[4:46] I just think it they totally

[4:48] underestimate the the volume of action

[4:50] it takes.

[4:51] Yep. Yep. 100%. uh one of the

[4:54] interesting things that Austin shared

[4:55] with me the way how you market to the

[4:58] groups. Can you tell us a little bit

[5:00] more what is your approach?

Marketing stack: cold call, email, FB ads, SEO

[5:02] Yeah, on the ax throwing side we really

[5:05] market to businesses and organizations

[5:07] and you know what we do for that is we

[5:10] have some pretty sophisticated email

[5:12] campaigns set up. We have a cold caller.

[5:15] So obviously it's holiday party season

[5:17] so our cold caller is really kind of

[5:19] going at it right now and calling it.

[5:21] And the pitch is really easy, right?

[5:22] You're not trying to sell a widget or a

[5:25] piece of software. And so cold calling

[5:27] we've seen great success for because you

[5:30] know the whole part of cold calling is

[5:32] you want to get past the front desk to

[5:34] the decision maker. And when you're cold

[5:36] calling for a holiday party that or the

[5:39] office person wants to get you to the

[5:41] decision maker because they want to have

[5:43] the party. And so um cold calling has

[5:45] been great for us. Email marketing has

[5:47] been great for us. We've done some

[5:48] Facebook ads for team building events as

[5:51] well. That's done okay for us. On the

[5:55] casual consumer side, people doing

[5:57] birthday parties and things like that.

[5:58] Facebook ads have definitely been

[6:00] generating the most revenue for us. Uh

[6:02] we've done a lot of SEO. When I

[6:05] purchased the business, the business

[6:07] basically didn't have a website. And so

[6:09] we were, you know, obviously that's

[6:10] long-term SEO and that investment that

[6:13] we've made and it's really really paying

[6:14] off. And you know, now we're ranking on

[6:16] the first page for birthday parties, for

[6:18] you know, things to do in Carne,

[6:19] Nebraska, and attractions and all the

[6:22] the SEO keywords that we've really spent

[6:25] a lot of time working to, you know, make

[6:27] sure that we're ranking in those on that

[6:30] first page of Google. So, we're very

[6:32] blessed to be the only ax throwing venue

[6:34] in our town. We're a a city or a town of

[6:38] 30,000 people, but we do have other

[6:40] attractions. We have a a family fun

[6:42] center. We have uh golf simulators and

[6:45] things like that and so we are competing

[6:46] in that space but yeah we're we're

[6:49] working our way at taking some of that

[6:50] market share for sure.

[6:52] That's nice. Can you tell us a little

[6:53] bit more about your uh your location

[6:56] like how many square feet, how many

[6:58] extra lanes, what kind of extra because

[7:00] there is a different kinds how many

[7:02] splatter rooms you have.

Venue specs & experiences (projection targets, arcade)

[7:04] Yeah, we are a 3,000 ft² facility and we

[7:08] have one splatter room that we can get

[7:10] up to 20 people in at once. So, it's a

[7:12] decent size splatter room. We have eight

[7:15] ax throwing lanes and we have double

[7:17] targets in our axe throwing lanes. We

[7:19] also have projection targets and so you

[7:22] can play up to 15 different games

[7:23] anywhere from battleship to tic-tac-toe

[7:26] to the standard ax throwing target. So,

[7:27] it's all interactive. And then we have

[7:30] we just put in uh some arcade games. So,

[7:32] we have Pac-Man, we have some claw

[7:34] machines, we also have skill machines.

[7:36] We just put those in last week. So,

[7:38] we'll kind of see how those do.

[7:39] That's awesome. Uh, do you have alcohol

[7:41] license or BYOB?

[7:42] Yeah. So, we do have an alcohol license.

[7:45] So, we do serve canned, domestic, and

[7:47] craft beer.

[7:48] Nice. Nice. What would you say or do you

[7:51] know your numbers like uh what's the

[7:53] percentage of sales uh goes towards like

[7:56] alcohol sales?

Drinks & family-friendly culture

[7:57] Yeah, about 12 to 15% is drink sales,

[8:00] whether that be non-alcoholic or

[8:02] alcohol.

[8:02] Okay. And have you had it all the way

[8:05] from the beginning?

[8:06] Yes. Yep. We've served Yeah, we've

[8:08] served drinks since day one.

[8:09] Nice. Do you think it's part of uh the

[8:11] reason why you have such a success at

[8:13] your location?

[8:14] That's a great question. I do think that

[8:16] when we're doing those company holiday

[8:18] parties and those team building events,

[8:21] I think it is a big factor because uh

[8:24] you know, for example, we have a big

[8:26] account. It's a manufacturing firm. They

[8:28] fly people in from all over and they

[8:31] come to our facility for their team

[8:33] building event and you know, they do an

[8:35] open bar. So, you know, it is just a

[8:37] nice to have type thing. I think you

[8:39] could probably still be successful

[8:41] without it. The one thing that I really

[8:43] like about our venue is we're

[8:45] familyfriendly. So, it's not a place

[8:47] that you're going to come and you're

[8:48] going to overdrink and you're really

[8:49] going to party. That's not the type of

[8:51] venue that we that's not what our

[8:54] culture is. And so, our culture is to

[8:56] come have clean fun and if you want to

[8:59] have a couple drinks, we can definitely

[9:01] do that.

[9:02] Derek, uh you you mentioned one of the

[9:04] strategies where you uh market to

[9:06] corporate events and birthday parties.

[9:08] What other marketing strategies you

[9:09] would say that works exceptionally well

[9:12] for your business?

Holiday party playbook & timing

[9:13] Yeah, great question. So, I would say

[9:15] email and cold calling is definitely the

[9:19] two things that work best for us. And

[9:21] so, now luckily, we've we've done this a

[9:23] very manual process to build our cold

[9:26] calling list and our email list. And so,

[9:29] it was a lot of work upfront, but now we

[9:32] have a list of about 3,000 businesses

[9:35] and organizations that we use. It's

[9:37] still a little bit of a manual process.

[9:39] I need to implement automation in the

[9:42] business right now and I just haven't

[9:43] done that yet and it's definitely

[9:45] holding me back. So, right now what we

[9:47] do is in the second week of October, we

[9:50] start our email campaigns for our team

[9:54] building events and our holiday parties

[9:56] because we know businesses are going to

[9:58] start to think about those. the banking

[10:00] industry usually are the ones that think

[10:02] about it first and then the smaller

[10:05] other businesses, manufacturing and

[10:07] other verticals, we start to see them

[10:09] really start booking those parties the

[10:11] first week of November. But so the

[10:14] second week of October, we start our

[10:16] email campaigns and then we're following

[10:18] up with a cold call and then hopefully

[10:20] if we get a hold of them, then we send

[10:22] another email with more information. We

[10:24] have a YouTube video that's included in

[10:26] the email so they can see what the

[10:28] facility looks like if they haven't been

[10:30] there before. We also link to our

[10:33] website if they want to book directly

[10:36] just to make sure that we have that call

[10:38] to action in that email. But then we

[10:39] start interacting with the customer. We

[10:41] start to understand, you know, how many

[10:43] people do they have? When do they

[10:44] usually have their party? Is it

[10:46] December? Is it January? Is it after

[10:48] that? And then we start to basically

[10:50] just have that conversation about, you

[10:53] know, why they're going to have so much

[10:55] fun having their holiday party with us

[10:57] at Axholes, whether they're doing ax

[10:59] throwing or they're doing paint

[11:00] splatter. And we just kind of take that

[11:02] conversation and hopefully can convert

[11:04] that lead and that prospect um into

[11:07] booking a party. And so that's that's a

[11:09] little bit what our process is. Even

[11:11] though it's a little bit of a manual

[11:12] process, we've we've had really good

[11:14] success. You know, one of the biggest

[11:16] challenges that I found out was when I

[11:19] first bought this business, I was

[11:20] waiting too long. I was waiting until

[11:22] the second or third week of November to

[11:26] market to them to have them book their

[11:28] holiday parties. And most of them

[11:30] already had their holiday parties booked

[11:31] by then. So, timing was just critical.

[11:33] And that was something that I really

[11:35] stubbed my toe with. And I really messed

[11:37] up the first year that we started, you

[11:40] know, that we were really marketing to

[11:41] businesses to book those holiday

[11:43] parties.

[11:43] Okay. Nice. And that was my next

[11:45] question like what kind of lessons have

[11:47] you learned uh since you acquired the

[11:49] business and since you been doing

[11:51] marketing and you know uh growing

[11:53] growing your business?

Biggest lesson: run social ads

[11:54] I think the biggest thing that I messed

[11:56] up on was not doing social media ads. So

[11:58] this year we're on track to I think grow

[12:01] our revenue by 50%. In the other years

[12:04] we were just seeing revenue in 2022 we

[12:06] saw our revenue drop by 50%. Then we

[12:08] start saw our revenue decline again. And

[12:11] so when I started working with Blue

[12:13] Apple Marketing, that was the turning

[12:14] point. So yes, we implemented our paint

[12:17] splatter room July of 24, but it really

[12:20] wasn't until January of 25 that we

[12:23] really started seeing exponential

[12:25] growth. And it was because we started

[12:27] implementing the Facebook ads and we

[12:29] really started promoting our paint

[12:31] spider. I had that mindset of our

[12:34] revenue was declining. we were doing

[12:36] marketing and I didn't do the social

[12:39] media ads because my brain was set of

[12:41] man we're already losing so much money

[12:43] now I can't stand to lose additional

[12:46] money was my mindset and my focus and

[12:49] after working with blue apple marketing

[12:51] and working with Austin he basically

[12:53] just had a conversation with me and said

[12:55] you have to do this and you need to stop

[12:58] working in your business and you need to

[13:00] start working on your business and it

[13:01] was just a mindset shift for me and so

[13:04] once we started doing that and we really

[13:06] started to see that high ROI with those

[13:09] marketing and Facebook ads and it was

[13:12] just a game changer for us and so ever

[13:14] since I just started to really invest in

[13:16] marketing and changing our strategies

[13:18] and it's just it's been a total game

[13:20] changer.

[13:21] Let me ask you this on a management side

[13:23] for somebody who is just starting up or

[13:25] maybe they're planning to buy their

[13:27] first uh EV escape room or extra place

[13:29] or maybe paint studio what would you

[13:31] recommend to them now with your

[13:33] experience? Yeah, I think one of the

Systems, staff culture, core memories

[13:35] things that was the biggest challenge

[13:36] for me, so I actually live an hour and

[13:39] 15 minutes away from my venue, which is

[13:42] not ideal. And one of the things that I

[13:44] really had to implement for the staff

[13:46] was there was just no systems and

[13:48] processes in place when I took over the

[13:50] venue. It was kind of just ran, you

[13:53] know, very casually. And so like just

[13:57] adding those systems and processes into

[13:59] I mean just down to what the startup

[14:02] process of the venue is, you know, what

[14:04] do you do during the shifts, you know,

[14:06] what do you do when you go to leave, you

[14:07] know, all that stuff just that was not

[14:10] implemented at all when I purchased the

[14:13] business. So now that's why I was

[14:15] working in the business so much when I

[14:18] first bought it and not on the business,

[14:20] which I should have been focused on. I

[14:22] basically had to change the culture day

[14:25] one. And by the end of the first week,

[14:28] the staff told me, "Okay, you're

[14:30] completely different. We want to work

[14:32] with you and for you." And so I was able

[14:35] to turn that culture around really,

[14:37] really fast. Thank God. Then I was able

[14:39] to rebuild the staff. And there were

[14:42] some staff that did still leave, you

[14:44] know, after six months or a year

[14:46] actually. But now I have the best team

[14:48] I've ever had and they represent the

[14:52] culture of who we are and that you know

[14:54] we treat everybody with upbeat kindness

[14:56] is my big thing and even the grumpiest

[15:00] customers we have them laughing and

[15:02] joking by the time that they leave and

[15:04] they had an experience that they're

[15:06] going to remember. I mean Demetri you

[15:08] know this you live this. You know,

[15:10] birthday parties are core memories of

[15:12] kids. And so, we're so blessed to be

[15:15] able to be a part of that. When the kids

[15:18] come and have their birthday party with

[15:20] us, you know, we have them screaming

[15:22] that this is the best birthday party

[15:24] ever, you know, and so the parents

[15:26] remember that, the kids remember that,

[15:28] you know, their friends remember that.

[15:30] And that's the experience that we want

[15:31] to deliver every single party that we

[15:34] have. from the point when you walk in

[15:36] that front door to when you leave, we

[15:38] want you to remember this as an awesome

[15:40] experience. And so that's that's our

[15:42] goal and that's what I've immersed into

[15:44] our culture of our from our employees to

[15:46] our facility to everything we do is

[15:49] just, you know, creating that core

[15:50] memory that people are always going to

[15:52] remember.

[15:52] Today, end of 2025, a lot of people who

[15:55] might be watching this video, they're

[15:57] going to say like, is this is for real

[15:59] extra and doing good? Because I know

[16:02] that a lot of people right now

[16:03] especially in X throwing industry is

[16:06] struggling like for people who owns

[16:07] extra places and they feel the pain

[16:10] right now. What can you suggest them

[16:12] like what do you think make your venue

[16:14] different again besides the the fact

[16:17] that it's only one venue in a in a know

[16:19] bigger area?

[16:20] Yeah.

[16:21] What makes the difference?

Small-market strategy: kids’ birthdays & partnerships

[16:23] Yeah. So I think number one adding that

[16:25] second experience. So the paint splatter

[16:28] room started another buzz for us in our

[16:31] town. So when we added the paint

[16:33] splatter room, it ended up in the

[16:34] newspapers. It ended up on the news and

[16:37] so we had another buzz that was created

[16:40] that we just were kind of missing. But I

[16:43] think the other thing is a lot of axing

[16:45] venues, they're they're focusing maybe

[16:47] on the wrong target audience. And so a

[16:49] lot of axing venues that I talked to,

[16:52] they're focusing on maybe the adult

[16:54] birthday party. But in my eyes, we we

[16:57] focus on the adult birthday parties as

[16:59] well. But when you're an adult, you are

[17:02] going out with maybe a couple friends,

[17:04] maybe four friends at the most. And so

[17:06] that ticket price for four friends is

[17:09] very different than doing a kids

[17:12] birthday party where you're having 15 to

[17:14] 20 people. And so I think one of the

[17:16] things that we didn't catch on to early

[17:18] on was focusing on doing the kids

[17:22] birthday parties. you know, parents will

[17:24] spend four, six, $100, even $1,000 on

[17:28] their kids' birthday party where, you

[17:30] know, if you're going out with your

[17:31] friends, you know, you may spend $80 to

[17:34] $100. And so, I think it was just a

[17:36] different demographic that we that we

[17:38] weren't marketing to. And so, I have a

[17:41] friend in Tennessee and I have another

[17:43] friend in Louisiana and they have ax

[17:46] throwing venues. And so I've been really

[17:48] working with them to really focus their

[17:50] efforts on those high ticket sales and

[17:52] those parties that are the, you know,

[17:55] $500 to $1,000 parties rather than the

[17:58] 40 night, you know, ticket sales. But

[18:00] I'm not saying that you can't be

[18:01] successful on that. I'm just saying

[18:03] those are nice to haves and the 40 night

[18:06] is nice fill-ins, but you really need to

[18:09] be booking and having your reservations

[18:12] for those bigger, higher ticket sales in

[18:15] my opinion.

[18:16] Great. Great advice. You work during the

[18:18] day and you have this business. How

[18:21] difficult is how it's affecting your

Work/life, staying inspired

[18:23] personal life?

[18:24] Yeah, that's a great question. So, I I

[18:26] do work 70 hours a week between my day

[18:29] job and my side business and but to me,

[18:33] you know, mental health and physical

[18:35] health uh are is really my top priority.

[18:38] I need to be the best that I can be for

[18:41] my team, for my day job. I I lead a very

[18:43] large IT and cyber security company and

[18:46] so it's important for me that I'm on all

[18:48] the time for them and you know growing

[18:51] that company. We've seen significant

[18:53] growth on that side but that's also goes

[18:55] to show um I need to be doing that for

[18:57] my business as well. For me it's it is

[19:00] work but it doesn't really phase me

[19:02] anymore just because I've been doing it

[19:04] for so long. But I do find myself being

[19:07] inspired by others. So, you know, when I

[19:10] see what you and Austin and Blew up a

[19:13] marketing is doing and Spin Art Nation

[19:15] and your escape rooms, like that really

[19:17] inspires me. So, you know, like Austin's

[19:20] post that he made um about the facility,

[19:23] I think they spent a whole week or a

[19:25] couple days creating content and like

[19:28] that inspired me and I was like, I got

[19:29] to go take action and create ideas for

[19:33] new content that we're going to do. And

[19:34] so I think it's just making sure that

[19:36] you're immersing yourself with people

[19:39] that are like-minded. And I like to

[19:42] surround myself with people that are way

[19:44] smarter than me and doing way bigger

[19:46] things than me because it like energizes

[19:48] me and I want to do that. Like I see all

[19:51] the success that you guys have had and I

[19:52] know that everything isn't cupcakes and

[19:54] roses. I know you guys have your

[19:56] challenges and I know that you guys have

[19:58] probably had your lols and things like

[19:59] that, but just knowing that you guys are

[20:01] doing great things inspires me to be

[20:04] better. I think that's that's probably

[20:06] one of the biggest things that I always

[20:07] try to do is just surround myself with

[20:09] the people that are are doing cool

[20:11] things and just that are going to

[20:13] inspire me to continue to to grow and

[20:16] take action.

[20:17] How big is your city?

[20:18] Yeah, we have between 30 and 35,000

[20:20] people in our city.

[20:21] Okay. It's considered basically smaller

[20:24] size city. For somebody who is in also

[20:26] smaller cities, what is the three things

[20:29] you would advise for them if they have a

[20:31] small entertainment company, a throw an

[20:33] escape room, paint studio, paint room or

[20:36] something else?

Three tips for small cities

[20:37] Yeah, I think building relationships

[20:39] with businesses and even the larger

[20:41] businesses in that small town has really

[20:44] helped us. So, you know, for example, we

[20:47] are a college town. Now, the college

[20:49] kids aren't a big market for us. Um,

[20:52] just because, you know, ax throwing and

[20:54] entertainment, it's a little bit more

[20:55] expensive and it's a little bit more

[20:57] expensive than going to the bars and and

[20:59] having drinks, but the college itself is

[21:02] a big account for us. So, we do a ton of

[21:05] team building events for them, whether

[21:07] that be the student week. So, for

[21:10] example, they have a student health week

[21:12] where around exam times or finals, they

[21:16] the college pays for students to come in

[21:18] and throw axes. So, that's a really good

[21:20] account for us. We also work with the

[21:23] coaches to bring their teams in to do

[21:26] team building events with us. So, that's

[21:28] worked really well for us. But then

[21:30] we've also partnered with the larger

[21:32] businesses in our town uh or to do team

[21:35] building events. So, we have some pretty

[21:37] large manufacturing facilities. We have

[21:40] some um pretty large retail businesses.

[21:43] So, we've built really good

[21:44] relationships with them where we know

[21:46] that they're going to do parties with us

[21:48] in August and October. Like one of, for

[21:50] example, one of the manufacturing

[21:52] facilities, they have interns that they

[21:54] bring in and they always want to do a

[21:56] team building event at the end of their

[21:57] internship in the summer. So, we know

[22:00] that we're going to have some very large

[22:01] parties in August with them. And then we

[22:03] know that they fly people in from all

[22:05] over the US in October and we're going

[22:07] to have two really large parties for

[22:09] them in October. So I think just

[22:11] building those relationships and then

[22:13] also I think we've built really good

[22:15] relationships with the small business

[22:17] community and we pass business back and

[22:19] forth. So that's has worked really

[22:21] really well for us. But I think also in

[22:24] a small business even down to our

[22:26] Facebook marketing like it's still

[22:28] worked even if you're in a small

[22:29] business. I think a lot of people we

[22:31] still get, you know, we've been

[22:32] established since 21 and people still

[22:34] come to us and be like, "Oh my gosh, I

[22:36] didn't know that you guys were even here

[22:38] or that you had your paint spider room

[22:40] or did axe throwing." So, I think that

[22:41] brand awareness is also super important,

[22:44] but I also want smaller businesses to be

[22:46] to think about that it's just not brand

[22:48] awareness, right? You still need that

[22:50] call to action. You still need them to

[22:52] actually book a party. A lot of

[22:53] businesses I see small businesses,

[22:55] they'll do, you know, their social media

[22:57] ads, but they don't have a good call to

[22:59] action and they're just doing brand

[23:00] awareness and I feel like they're just

[23:02] lighting dollars on fire because they're

[23:04] doing brand awareness, but they are not

[23:06] having those people come in and actually

[23:08] make a reservation or come to their

[23:09] facility. So, I always um, you know,

[23:12] want people to be a little bit careful

[23:13] about that.

[23:14] Nice. All right. Listen, it was awesome

[23:16] conversation.